ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos"-Transcript

Interview

ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos"-Transcript

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this special edition of "This Week." We're back here at Drake University in Iowa for the first Democratic presidential debate in Iowa. It's been sanctioned by the Democratic National Committee.

All of our guests here have been invited by the Iowa Democratic Party, and all eight Democratic candidates are here.

The podium order was determined by lot, but here's where they stand in Iowa according to our latest ABC News poll -- at 27 percent, Illinois Senator Barack Obama; New York Senator Hillary Clinton is at 26 percent, as is former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, also 26 percent; New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson is at 11 percent; Senator Joe Biden of Delaware is at 2 percent; Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich, also at 2 percent; Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd is at 1 percent; and former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel, no support registered.

Candidates, welcome. (Laughter.)

(Simultaneous voices.)

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SEN. CLINTON: (From videotape.) No option should be off the table. But I would certainly take nuclear weapons off the table. And this administration has been very willing to talk about using nuclear weapons in a way we haven't seen since the dawn of the nuclear age. I think that's a terrible mistake.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: So Senator Obama rules out using them against al Qaeda. You rule out using them against Iran. What's the principal difference there?

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Edwards, is there a difference or not?

MR. EDWARDS: How about a little hope and optimism? Where did it go? You know I listen to this debate, and this is what I hear. First of all I think we have a clear path for America and for our friends on Iran which Senator Clinton just spoke about. And that path is to work with our friends in Europe to put a choice between carrots and sticks on the table for the Iranian people. Because there is a division between the Iranian people and their radical leader Amadinejad. There's no question about that. We can take advantage of that. We should take advantage of that, and drive a wedge between the two.

In the case of Pakistan, the truth of the matter is, Musharraf is not a wonderful leader, but he provides some stability in Pakistan.

And there is a great risk if he's overthrown about a radical government taking over. They have a nuclear weapon. They're in constant tension with India which also has a nuclear weapon over Kashmir. I mean it is a dangerous, volatile situation.

But the last thing I want to say about this is, it's not shocking that -- first of all I think Senator Obama is entitled to express his view. And it's not shocking that people who have been in Washington a long time criticize him when he comes along and expresses his view. I think his view adds something to this debate, and I think he ought to be able to express it.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But is he right or wrong?

MR. EDWARDS: On which issue?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The one I just asked. Is there a difference between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama on this issue?

MR. EDWARDS: I personally think, and I would as president, not talk about hypotheticals and nuclear weapons. I think that is not a healthy thing to do. I think what it does for the president of the United States is, it effectively limits your options. And I do not want to limit my options, and I don't want to talk about hypothetical use of nuclear weapons.

I would add to that that I think what I -- what the president of the United States should actually do, beyond stopping bunker-buster nuclear weapons, which this administration is moving forward with, is, what America should do and what I would do as president, is to actually lead an international effort over time to eliminate nuclear weapons from the planet. That's the way to make the planet more secure.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But the Associated Press this week wrote an article. They talked to 40 Democratic activists and officeholders across the country. It led to this series of headlines across the country -- Democrats worry Clinton may weight down lesser candidates; Democrats worry Clinton may hurt the rest of the ticket.

Are they right to be worried?

MR. EDWARDS: Well, let me just say, I have a slightly different view, here's what I believe. I think we were out of power in the Congress for 13 years. In November of 2006 the Democrats took over the Congress again. I think there was a reason for that, because the Democrats in 2006 stood for change.

America wants change in the most serious way. And if we become the party of status quo in 2008, that's a loser.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that is a fundamental question--

MR. EDWARDS: Let me finish. If we maintain the momentum of change, yes, we will win again in 2006. I think that's the question.

And the real question for Democratic caucus goers and voters across this country is, who's most likely to bring about change.

Here's what I believe. I don't believe you can change this country without taking on very entrenched interests in Washington, including lobbyists, that stand between us and the change that America needs. And I don't believe you can do it by sitting at a table, negotiating with them, and trying to bring them together.

These people will never give away their power voluntarily. We have to take their power away from them. This is what I've been doing my whole life, and that's why I believe I am the candidate who can bring change to--

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're saying that Senator Clinton is not?

(Applause.)

MR. EDWARDS: Listen, Senator Clinton, both as First Lady and as a United States senator, has done a terrific job. She's been in Washington a long time.

We -- I've asked -- Senator -- I've never taken money from Washington lobbyists. Senator Obama is not taking it in his campaign; I applaud him for that. And I've said, why don't we all make an absolutely clear statement that we, the Democratic Party, we're the party of the people. We are not the party of Washington insiders, and we can say it clearly and unequivocally by saying we will never take another dime from a Washington lobbyists. I've asked the other candidates to join me in that -- (applause) -- and at least until now, Senator Clinton's not done it.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: --how about this point though that Senator Edwards raises. He says the fact that you're taking money from lobbyists symbolizes that you're part of the status quo, part of the failed politics of Washington?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, George, I believe we have to change Washington. I've stood up against the special interests. I've taken them on. You know I took them on on health care. I took them on and voted against a lot of their special interest legislation like class action reform, which is just really another way of lining the pockets of big business.

I've taken them on on so many fronts. But there is this artificial distinction that people are trying to make -- don't take money from lobbyists, but take money from the people who employ and hire lobbyists and give them their marching orders. Those are the people that are really going to be pushing back.

I think we can do a much better job if we say we've got to move toward public financing, get the money out of American politics. Because it's the people who employ the lobbyists who are behind all the money in American politics. (Applause.) So I think what we need to do is go after a better agenda of reform.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Back at you, Senator. She says the distinction is artificial.

MR. EDWARDS: The distinction is not artificial. But first of all, Senator Clinton did a terrific job in the 1990s trying to do something about health care in this country. She deserves credit for that.

But here's what I believe -- the reason we don't have universal health care in America today is because of the insurance industry, the drug companies, and their lobbyists. And -- (applause) -- George, we need -- there's a fundamental question here, whether you believe, whether voters believe, the way we're going to have universal health care is to deal with those people, to make a deal with them. I don't. I don't think it'll work. I don't think we should be taking their money. I think we ought to make it absolutely clear that we're not going to take money from insurance company lobbyists or drug company lobbyists, these big corporate lobbyists, that actually killed -- killed -- the health care effort that was done in the 1990s.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Dodd, let me ask you--

MR. EDWARDS: Let me finish this.

(Simultaneous voices.)

MR. EDWARDS: The question is, the question is, what will bring change. What will bring change? My belief is, you have to take these people on and beat them to bring change. You can't sit at a table and negotiate with them.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you.

Senator Edwards, can all the troops be out, except for protection of the embassy, by December?

MR. EDWARDS: I couldn't hear the --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: By December, by the -- by Governor Richardson's plan.

MR. EDWARDS: Well, I think it would be hard to do by December. I think we can responsibly and in a very orderly way bring our troops out over the next nine or 10 months.

But one thing I want to say, as I'm listening today -- I know you're trying to create a fight up here, I understand that.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: (Laughs.) I want to find out what you all think, that's all.

MR. EDWARDS: Any -- any Democratic president will end this war.

GOV. RICHARDSON: George? George.

MR. EDWARDS: That's what we know. (Applause.) And secondly, the difference -- the differences between us, whether it's Senator Clinton or Senator Dodd or Governor Richardson or Senator Biden, all of whom I have enormous respect for, the differences between all of us are very small compared to the differences between us and the Republican candidates, who, the best I can tell, are George Bush on steroids. (Laughter.) They're -- they're going to keep this war going as long as it can possibly go. That's exactly what's going to happen.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on now. You've got a question; you've got an e-mail question from Seth Ford of South Jordan, Utah. And he said, "My question is to understand each candidate's view of a personal God. Do they believe that through the power of prayer disasters like Hurricane Katrina or the Minnesota bridge collapse could have been prevented or lessened?" I'd like each of you to answer it.

MR. EDWARDS: I -- I have prayed most of my life. Pray daily now. It's enormously important to me. But the answer to the question is no. I don't -- I prayed before my 16-year-old son died. I prayed before Elizabeth was diagnosed with cancer. I think there are some things that are beyond our control, and I think it is enormously important to look to God and, in my case, Christ, for guidance and for wisdom. But I don't think you can prevent bad things from happening through prayer.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you, Congressman. Let's turn to another question from here in Iowa. It's on the subject of agriculture, close to a lot of Iowans' hearts, and it comes from Mr. Blaine Bacon (sp).

MR. BACON (SP): I'm Blaine Bacon (sp), a farmer from Massena, Iowa. And I was wondering how you plan to help small farms as the large companies take over more farms?

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MR. EDWARDS: Well, the first thing I'd say is I think we've had a failed trade policy in America. The question seems to have been, on past trade agreements like NAFTA, is this -- is this trade agreement good for the profits of big, multinational corporations? And the answer to those questions on the trade agreements we've entered into has been yes, it's been very good for multinational corporations. It has not been good for America workers. And in an Edwards administration, the first question I will ask in every single trade agreement we're considering is is this good for middle-class, working families in America? That'll be the threshold question.

(Applause.)

And second, we will have real labor and environmental standards in the text of the agreement, which I will enforce. We will have protections against currency manipulation, which the Chinese are engaged in right now. And then finally -- finally, we will end these loopholes that actually create tax incentives for companies to leave America and take jobs somewhere else. (Applause.) That needs to be brought to an end. (Continued applause. )

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS:

ROBERT MELCZAREK: (From tape.) This question is for all the candidates. Unlike many others, I think that candidates may tell the truth, just not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. For example, when advocating a position or action, candidates downplay or simply ignore the likely negative side effects. Can you name a major issue where you didn't tell the whole truth and describe what you left out?

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Edwards?

SEN. EDWARDS: Wasn't the question whether there's ever been anything that we didn't say --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what I'm asking you the question. Right.

SEN. EDWARDS: That's what I thought it was. (Laughs.) I think in my case that would be true about my vote on the war in Iraq. I was wrong to vote for this war, but beyond that I had huge internal conflict at the time about giving George Bush this authority.

And I did talk about -- as all these other candidates have just said, I did talk about the things that persuaded me to cast the vote, but what I didn't express was the huge conflict I had because I did not trust George Bush. It turns out I was right not to have trusted him, and I cast the wrong vote. But that's the one time and probably the single biggest time that I can think of.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We're running towards the end of the 90 minutes. I have a couple -- (applause) -- of quick questions and then a final question.

This is basically yes/no question. We've seen all this turmoil in the markets over the last couple of weeks caused by the credit crunch and the crisis in the mortgage markets. We saw on Friday the Federal Reserve lowered the discount rate for banks. Should they lower rates for everyone else? Yes or no?

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SEN. EDWARDS: I agree with that, but we also need a home rescue fund for all the millions of Americans who are worried about losing their hom

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: A decisive moment in your life to put you on the broader path.

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MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Edwards?

SEN. EDWARDS: When I was a young boy I came downstairs one morning. It was still dark outside. My father, who worked in mills all his life, was sitting at the kitchen table. The television was on. He was watching public television and he'd never been able to go to college and he was trying to learn from public television so he could get a better job in the mill. And I worked in the mill myself part time when I was younger and I made the decision then, whatever I did with my life -- didn't know that I'd be running for president, but whatever I did with my life those are the people that I would fight for as long as I was -- (inaudible.)

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